I’ve been through a lot and a little; read carefully. Title inspired by Mark Morrison’s “Return of the Mack” which sums up the vibes. Cover art is from the 300+ mile journey in my dangerously overloaded Honda Fit carrying my 2 Yamaha QT50s: the Green Goose (inside) and La Poderosa.

Big Preface

On the surface, this post may seem negative. I receive that because it tries to make sense of the worst time of my life. Don’t let the ugly data scary you; keep going.

This is not investment, legal, or career advice.

The Update About Nothing

I moved back to San Diego and am once again a postdoctoral researcher! Not a flex: I made it to more final-round interviews in 2 years than most people go through in their entire careers. I didn’t get much from the existential crises because I’ve always known who I am, but I did learn a lot about human nature. I won’t share any thing too specific about the companies, and this is by no means advice. This is anec-data for the minority, so if find yourself going through similar shit, that it’s not you.

If you agree with me, that’s great! If you disagree, even better.

Not an Intro

I applied to a few thousand industry scientist positions since May of 2022. That said, I stopped keeping track of anything less than a final round interview after July 2023 (too painful.)

It should be obvious, but I’ll say it anyway: I prepared by studying the company culture, the pipeline, patents, publications, and each interviewer’s background. I emphasized my transferable skills, practiced my presentation, tailored my background to their pain-points, highlighted the value I would bring, I used the STAR method, I made sure not to talk myself out of a job, etc. I’m not a scrub so don’t treat me like one.

On average, every 4-7 weeks of arduous job searching got me at least one final round interview scheduled (and after 1-2 weeks, a decision). Winter of 2022 was the most active, with 7 final rounds completed between August-December. The worst time was late February-April of 2023 (gg SVB) with 0 final round and 4 HM/stretch interviews.

I know that technically, I could make a neat little Sankey diagram to summarize my journey. I could also publicly share my job spreadsheet and redact the company names, application links, and interview notes. However, I’m not here to chase clout and for free99 on my ad-free website, all you get is words. Most importantly, data =/= money; it don’t talk.

Truthfully, my experience flies in the face of the more…pedestrian advice, so let’s get to it.

Not My Philosophy

I’ve never believed in playing “the numbers game”. On an intellectual level, I find it insulting and lazy in the wrong/stupid direction. However, everyone was telling me the same thing, and it’s hard being sanctimonious while unemployed. So, I applied to many (IMO) jobs as a control (testing the null hypothesis).

In my humble opinion (ha), I made it easy to hire me: I tailored my CV+CL after receiving extensive feedback, I curated my LinkedIn, I asked contacts for internal referrals, I did plenty of informational interviews, and in their words, I made a good impression.

From the very beginning, my specificity and sensitivity were on 10. I could tell which jobs I would make it to the final round for because they felt like a probable/clear fit. Green flags include creative vibes (trust, they’re in between the lines of the JD), easy intellectual/philosophical conversations, and caring less about techniques and more about big ideas. Besides, only during the height of the hiring craze did I make it to the final round for jobs that would have been a stretch in terms of skill match (think <80% but >40%).

To me, the numbers thing only really applies if you’re coming from a field/area that is popular/plug-and-play/immediately practical. However, these candidates faced a different challenge: the need to differentiate themselves from the competition. In my opinion, I already played that card to make it to the final round of interviews, so when I was staring down competition with prior experience, how was I supposed to beat them?

Not a Visible Ceiling

I can say with confidence that cover letters, hyper-tailored resumes, and referrals didn’t make a difference for a candidate like me: a 1st gen Latino with a PhD in pharmacology, a regulatory science MS, 10+ publications, 2 years of postdoc experience, and a jack-of-all-trades skill profile. Or more succinctly, overqualified and knowledgeable but under-experienced.

To be fair, referrals got me interviews that were a stretch. However, as impressive as HMs said I was, it wasn’t enough to break through. I got the same feedback: “while we have no doubt you can learn these skills on the job, we need this person to hit the ground running and generate data yesterday.” Broadly, a yellow flag for me was keeping me on ice, i.e., asking me to interview not with the team (final round), but another team member and extending the hiring timeline. This filler round (after the HR and HM rounds) always went great, but I couldn’t get past the “what can you do for me/the team if you were hired tomorrow?” question in their mind.

I suppose you could tell me that I should have applied to even more jobs, but where does it stop? “When you get a job!” Ok Dr. P-Hacker, but if you’re not checking off the invisible non-negotiable checkboxes, I don’t think it matters because you will never get a job. I recognize that this sounds negative, critical, jaded, bitter, and/or defeated. I don’t think that makes the conclusion wrong per se, but I get how it comes across. This is why I leaned so hard on my controls: to calibrate FDR, derive imputation methods, and to iterate.

Side note: as a scientist, I can’t not think critically about what I’m doing and I was surprised at what some people were telling me. Not in terms of job hunting and advice, but about themselves. I had a lot of data in hand and I tried to find/apply solutions to a dynamic game-theory problem, but I found few people willing to engage with their why like I did with mine. Mechanistically, these two ideas aren’t even mutually exclusive, but that’s a post for another day.

Back to the invisible checkboxes! They vary wildly by candidate pool, position, company, hiring manager, citizenship status, and economic climate, so there’s almost no point in being specific about them. Intuitively I think they are plausible but business culture precludes verifying their existence in the first place, because think about it. In this scenario, you gotta do everything right, everyone else has to do everything else wrong, and also the company has to not be willing to continue the search.

Let’s put my anec-data and assumptions to the side for a minute. Occasionally I heard from ADs who knew the vibes and gave it up: at the PhD level, some people would rather hire no one than risk hiring the wrong candidate. But no one can predict the future, so what can these people do but try to minimize risk with extreme prejudice?

Again, this website is free99. I’m saving that answer for another day.

Not Interview Results

Final round interviews included companies that were: small, medium, and large; public and private; pharmaceutical and biotech.

Immediately after the last interview or between 1-on-1s, I took many pages of notes to record my anec-data and the vibes. Cold-applying kinda worked for me, while the numbers game and networking did not. Many of my interviewers remember me and are still willing to speak with me to this day. Again, HR/HM calls are in the hundreds but this post is dedicated to final-round interviews only.

The general consensus from HMs: other candidates with industry experience (or experience in their specific therapeutic area) were a better fit. For non-neuro companies it was “too much ephys/neuro” but for neuro companies, it was “not enough ephys/hard neuro”. This was maddening because I was actively titrating these concentration and getting outside feedback from other ADs and Sr. Scientists before the final round.

Half of the interviews were on-site, one flew me out, and geographically, I was searching/applying/interviewing in SF, SoCal and the east coast. I wasn’t choosy, and advice to not be choosy got very annoying after a while. I also stopped doing informational interviews in August of 2023.

Like I alluded to earlier, I forced myself to expand my job search as things got worse but didn’t keep track of jobs that were not industry scientist positions. I asked senior people in industry if I should try applying to RA positions, and their response was split. Half told me yes, it can’t hurt. The other half said no, don’t even waste your time. I believed the latter but did the former, again as a control.

On top of scientist positions, I was a finalist for 5 industry postdocs, a few scientist positions at CROs, regulatory positions, and 2 staff scientist positions at 2 different universities. For 12 industry scientist positions, half the companies were neuro/ephys focused, and the other half were not. Think cardiovascular, rare disease, immuno-oncology, cell and gene therapy; both in research and analytical development. The 2 academic positions were primarily electrophysiology based (what a surprise).

No Money Trees

Early on, I started mapping out interview timelines and was pretty accurate at predicting when I could expect interview requests and decisions. If I didn’t hear back from a HM in 5 business days, that was an auto-dub.

Keeping track of my interview progress was important for another reason: I was living in the Bay area without an income, unemployment benefits, or government assistance. I had to project at least 2 months’ worth of expenses (rent, utilities, food, etc) and withdraw that money from my brokerage account every other month, which was fucking horrible.

In general, if I started interviewing for a job in week 1, I could expect a decision within 6 weeks (the faster things move, the more likely you are to get hired), so the earliest I could expect my first day was week 8. Maybe I could negotiate a signing bonus (not anymore tho!) but a on regular timeline, 5 weeks after offer acceptance (3 weeks for a background check) would be my first paycheck. That’s about 2.X rounds of rent and living expenses, although I did find a way to expand my withdrawal runway 5 weeks (risky AF!)

I had a lot of experience keeping expenses low in LA and SD, but in the Bay, I couldn’t get around the fucking housing costs.

Not Losing It

Everyone will have an opinion on what to do when you’re unemployed. A few people told me “Apply to anything and everything, from barista to high school tutor. You need a job. This is your fault for not doing _______.”

It was hard for me to receive these words with a smile. Not because I’m above those jobs, but because this “advice” is lazy and lacks critical thought. I get that everyone has to do what they gotta do to stay alive. HOWEVER! Not everyone leaves grad school and a postdoc with twoish bricks air frying in a brokerage account (not with that attitude anyway.)

I’m hardwired to believe that either A) you make money or B) money makes you. I took certain suggestions and did the minimal number of controls to test latter group’s philosophy/hypothesis, which both helped and hurt my mental health. The hurt came from feeling like my time was worthless, and again, I know who I am. This helped because it disproved their null hypothesis to me: I’m unemployed because I’m not doing enough or I’m doing the wrong thing.

In the end, I had to stop telling certain people how things were going cuz I was doing everything they suggested and had nothing to show for it except for negative data. Rather than accept/consider my controls, they wanted to see a bigger sample size. Ignoring the data is bad science, as is uncritically engaging with a hypothesis. To some, I was an idiot for using my savings to chase my dream, which made me mad/sad/laugh because I do things that are crazy, not stupid.

To be honest, you really shouldn’t be honest about the job hunt with most people.

Not Unemployable

Before you call me a loser, it bears repeating that I did get a contract job offer from a large public biotech in 2022, the week of Thanksgiving (lol). I was only a few months removed from my first postdoc, I still had my bricks, and I honestly didn’t have to try too hard. At the time, I was juggling 3 additional final interviews and spent the least amount of time preparing for it. I didn’t have to remember the STAR method because the HM had a similar scientific background, so neither they nor their team needed any convincing: they knew I could hit the ground running and be productive on day 1.

The whole process felt like a formality and took 3 weeks (1 round/week): HR screen, HM video call, and presentation/1-on-1s. I finished my 1-hour presentation 12 minutes early and got 0 questions at the end because they interjected during my presentation (easy money tbh.) Within 24 hours, I was asked for references. 48 hours after my final round interview, I got the verbal offer from HR. I didn’t have time to send “thank you” emails for this one.

One week after my final interview, I spoke to the HM and that same day, I received the written offer. After Thanksgiving, I rejected the offer. Surprisingly, they pushed back on my rejection, asking me if I would reconsider for a slightly higher salary. Basically, I gave them the (much higher) expected number from the other company in SF. I did this because I knew there were two possible outcomes: A) they couldn’t accept it, or B) I couldn’t reject it. Full disclosure: I first saw this job posting in September of 2022, and when it got reposted, I decided to apply. I knew it would be a good positive control, but I also knew this experience would hurt like hell, and it did!

At the very least, these data disprove the hypothesis that I am unemployable because I did get a written job offer. You can’t take that away from me. On the other hand, knowing that I rejected what would be my only real job offer made the bad days worse. 20+ months later, it still hurts because it was my dream company.

When I tell this story, certain people suggest that I should move on, and they’re not wrong. At the same time, they miss the point me of me telling that story and dismiss my data, so I can’t say they’re right.

Is this experience an L or half a W? Is it both or neither? It depends on whose hands hold it how.

Not Sour Grapes

I want to briefly share a thought that is both relevant and irreverent involving the Robert Frost poem The Road Not Taken. I see it as a litmus test for the vibes and a super dope poem because I see it as poking fun at people take things at face value. Misdirection of the vibes if you will. The poem’s last two lines are the most memorable: “I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference.”

To be clear, the words are there, but the heart is not. To me, this interpretation ignores the more objective second stanza: “Then took the other, as just as fair….had worn them really about the same”. For an in-depth literary critique, check out The Paris Review on the book by David Orr. Whether the traveler has cognitive dissonance or is wistful or is unreliable, my conclusion is the same: neither road mattered. This is not a shot at that LI blog post about alternative science career trajectories; I receive their interpretation and wanted to share my own literary hypothesis.

Again, I’m just a humble pharmacologist. If I found an inverse concentration-response relationship between road-wear and difference-making, I would get off the stupid road.

Not the 2022 Market

Back to the Pyrrhic journey we call life! I want to say that 2023 brought a shift in interviews, from “fit check” to “risk check”. I say that because halfway into 2023, my regulatory science MS became a red flag for scientist positions. I could only mention it once, passively, between the teams and individual interviews before someone asked “Why don’t you just do regulatory instead?” Whether this was a projection or a valid critique, it’s telling of the vibes. Ironically, when I tried applying for regulatory science positions in industry, my PhD was the red flag. Interviewers were like “Your PhD over-qualifies you for entry-level positions like this. Why regulatory, and why do you think you won’t get bored here?”

The grilling ranged from rare to well-done, but I didn’t get flustered and answered honestly with examples: I want to bring drugs from the bench to the bedside; I love learning; training in regulatory made my PhD experience successful and I believe the converse to be true. All you can really do is use over-qualification against under-experience. The HM was super cool though, and they did try to warn me about the company culture before I interviewed. I agree with their conclusion: I dodged a toxic bullet, but you don’t get points for losing.

Another thing I noticed in 2023: the LinkedIn algorithm became awful. To be clear, my view of LI has always been caustic. However, at least it had legitimate/relevant job postings sometimes. Once those started to dry up, I got bombarded by tutoring scams and dozens of other jobs that are only tangentially related to my preferred “scientist” job search terms: assay development, biochemistry, cell biology, molecular biology, electrophysiology, neuroscience, pharmacology, and chemical biology (with and without “PhD”) Seriously, I used to check LI daily and get daily email updates. By mid-2023, LinkedIn was barely relevant, and I had to remove email updates. Today, I only bother to include one catch-all search term: molecular biology.

Not Saying Less

I believe in an adiabatic hiring system where a recruiter lowers a candidate’s activation energy for hiring—they do not lower the free energy of the candidate or the hiring manager. Put another way, internal recruiters at companies are great cuz they’re great and can be trusted because they’re legit. External recruiters from reputable firms on retainer by pharma companies for specific positions are also reputable. If this sounds like it’s a Euthyphro problem to an unasked question, it’s cuz you shouldn’t answer it.

If a firm did something scammy like ask for your social security number, your mother’s maiden name, your money, and a copy of your passport, it’s only a matter of time before they change their name and start the scam all over again, so naming and shaming is futile at best. On the other hand, commenting on here could be perceived as punching down or sour grapes, regardless of WHO it comes from. This ignores the (true) validity of the original argument because any FPR is too high, so there’s only a negative outcome for all future job prospects, except rapper.

Is it ok for someone to use your resume to apply to job openings without your permission, or badger you with calls for jobs that don’t match your skills at all? No, read the disclaimer on the careers page of the pharma/biotech companies that are still around; there’s often a policy against unsolicited apps. Is it in your best interest to apply to postings from brand new accounts/firms that are carbon copies of other postings from other new accounts/firms? I didn’t think so, and while I remained unemployed, my 1 job offer cost me 0 scams. Those doing a good job will take time (a 30 minute call) to explain things to candidates before and after each phase of the interview stage in a non-anxiety inducing manner. They may also offer interview tips/advice that make you feel better if needed.

I kinda don’t want to mention career coaching, job-fluencers, and the like, since CS cracked the lid on things back in September of 2023. My pH=1 though: they only get half a bar. If you’re a postdoc or a grad student and what they’re telling you resonates, reach out to your campus’ career office; high-key they have your best interest at heart (for free). Generally, talking things out with another person (whether they’re from a career office, an informational interviewee, or a psychologist) makes the process easier to deal with.

Personally, I put stock into advice from people whose career/life trajectory respect, regardless of what they do. Still, I make and own my decisions. If you unequivocally KNOW the vibes, trust your instincts. Very early into the job searching process, I felt like people said one thing, but the truth was in their actions. Talking to people who genuinely knew the struggle kept me going; the converse is also true.

Find those who know the vibes; ignore everyone else.

Not Scary Hours

I like the pharma philosophy of “kill it fast and kill it early”. Unfortunately, hope springs eternal. If I look back at my anec-data through both lenses, I reach a fucked up conclusion: employment purgatory is a much worse fate than employment hell.

After a certain point, It bothered me that I never stopped having interviews and calls to look forward to. A good scientist isn’t afraid of running a hypothesis killing experiment. However, the experiment kept dragging on with stupider data. My unfortunate conclusion was I started the reaction with two assumptions that wouldn’t reproduce:in my hands: 1) knowledge/experience translates and 2) diverse backgrounds matter. This put me at a huge disadvantage in the lab.

There are two aphorisms on my mind this whole time: “the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent” and “you raise [funds] when the market is hot, not when you want”. 2023 came and went, as did 1.X bricks from my investment account. Every company that I interviewed with has either gone through layoffs, mergers, or bankruptcy. Everybody thinks it’s scary hours outside, so I often was asked: “When are you going to give up and do something else? Do you really plan to live off of your savings until you hit $0? What will you do after that?”

I don’t ask questions I don’t want the answer to. Not because I’m scared of the answer, but because questions that don’t provide a new actionable insight are stupid.

Not a Shook One

Let me make myself clear: I started investing money in grad school and as a postdoc to double-down on my future; on myself. No matter how dark, depressed, or lonely I got, I couldn’t shake the thought that I could pull off magic in the lab.

All my life, I’ve known that I’d rather blow my life savings and die* than not chase my dream. That has always been my line in the sand. I know that championing “resilience” is popular, but it’s cap unless you face what comes with that: the emotional equivalent of voluntary water-boarding.

I feel like I’ve gathered enough data to understand how others play the game. Literally, I asked for feedback and always received something from someone. 70% of the time it was “you should work in a lab that will teach you valuable skills that will help you get a job” with a varying tell. The other 30% of the time, it was off the record.

Combined with my intuition and my anec-data, I knew I wanted a different shot.

No More Forced Errors

At the end of 2023, it’s decided: I’m moving back to SD. Before, during and after the move, I’m playing to my strengths and attending in-person events, I’m networking, and most importantly, I’m being selective with the jobs I apply to. I’m also keenly aware of what the ground rules really are, and I’m actively looking for a chance to prove that I’m one of one.

It’s truly amazing that I made it as long as I did; spiritually, financially, and mentally. However, the banality of the job search was unbearable. IDGAF if something is difficult (I welcome the challenge) but I’ve never suffered fools or foolishness. To justify everything I went through, my next career move had to change two things: 1) how people interpreted my scientific past, and 2) the trajectory of my future. I don’t care if that’s asking for too much.

After a month of industry calls and interviews that didn’t pan out, I have 2 mutually exclusive options in front of me. The first option is going back to Scripps to really immerse myself in single-cell proteomics. Alternatively, I could final-round interview for 1) an industry postdoc in a non-neuro indication and 2) a neuroscientist position in academia.

The obvious, smartest decision for me was a second postdoc Scripps. First and foremost, they passed me the ball without looking. If you don’t know me, then you don’t know that I put numbers on the board, and I’ve learned how viciously stupid this cycle can be. I recognize that you may be thinking “But you want to go to industry; how do you figure a second postdoc helps that goal?” Intuition, confidence, and deductive reasoning, with a splash of ego.

Again, this is all anec-data and opinion. It is definitely not investment, legal, nor career advice.

One hill I almost died on: there are waaaaay more efficient paths to industry than neuro and ephys.

* the abridged converse is also true: I’d rather chase my dream than die